Use of third-party Product/Company name on web site - Legalities plus Etiquette

[Mike Morris]

I'm about to release to beta a product that works in conjunction with SQL Server. For purposes of this post, it could just as easily be Microsoft Excel or Oracle. What are the rules (copyright & otherwise) that govern how references can be made to these third-party companies? If I were selling macros for Excel, could I have copy on the site that states "NPV Macros for Microsoft Excel" or "Utility Macros for Microsoft Excel".

It seems like this is a common thing to do (as long as attribution is given or registered trademarks are clearly identified as such). I'm just looking for feedback as to what other people's experiences have been around this.... Thanks.

Mike

[Ruslan]

From experience - clearly stating the author of the product name along with link to his website solves most of the problems. i.e. "Microsoft is registered trademark of Microsoft Inc, Excel is ..."

This isn't unified around the globe.
In many cases - every company states it's own policy, not looking at laws of other countries.

[Sohail Somani]

Ask the vendor. In the case of Microsoft, I think they have some website stating the rules to follow. Just ensure that your product name does not depend on their trademark in any way because they can choose to enforce it. I know they're SUPPOSED to else they lose it but they don't always - see the multitude of FooExcel companies that don't get sued and compare to TurboExcel. In the latter case, the product was a threat to the use of Excel and got sued.

[Rich Tanenbaum]

Wow, Google Alerts actually worked today.

Sohail Somani said:

Ask the vendor. In the case of Microsoft, I think they have some website stating the rules to follow. Just ensure that your product name does not depend on their trademark in any way because they can choose to enforce it. I know they're SUPPOSED to else they lose it but they don't always - see the multitude of FooExcel companies that don't get sued and compare to TurboExcel. In the latter case, the product was a threat to the use of Excel and got sued.

Don't trust their Website. I learned that the hard way.

Based on our experience, you can say WidgetXXX for Microsoft SQL Server and put a little (R) in the appropriate place. But MS has the right to sue anyone they want to, so nothing is guaranteed, but if your product doesn't threaten their current or future as yet unannounced products that you'd have no wayof knowing about, they probably won't bother you.

If they do bother you, look at it as an opportunity to get your name out there, and then change it.

[Sohail Somani]

Rich Tanenbaum said:

Don't trust their Website. I learned that the hard way. Based on our experience, you can say WidgetXXX for Microsoft SQL Server and put a little (R) in the appropriate place. But MS has the right to sue anyone they want to, so nothing is guaranteed, but if your product doesn't threaten their current or future as yet unannounced products that you'd have no wayof knowing about, they probably won't bother you.

If they do bother you, look at it as an opportunity to get your name out there, and then change it.

Yep, I guess you are the one who will know best. I would steer clear if I could help it and market by other means though :-)

Fun bit of trivia: I wrote a (partial) XL spreadsheet compiler like you! Oh, how I hate the VBA language.

[Jeremy Lay]

Most large corporations offer a standards doc that covers third-party use of their trademarks, logos and other properties. Microsoft's policy is posted at: http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/permissions/default.mspx

Sohail's comment is valid- as long as you don't tread on their toes you're generally safe. Assuming your solution is complimentary to SQL and you present it in the right way, I'd guess that they'll be fine with your use of their TMs. Mind you, I'm no attorney, but I've been marketing in the ISV space for several years and have never run into any issues with MS. I wouldn't really worry about a lawsuit either - unless you did something to really tick them off, you'd get a cease and desist first anyway.

My advice: Make sure to plug in those TM and (R) symbols after the first instance of each MS trademark on every web page or document, and plug in a standard disclaimer at the foot of each to further cover yourself. The standard "The name and logo and the names and logos are the property of . Any other logos or product names used herein may be the property of their respective owners in and other countries" should be fine.

Hope this helps!

-Jeremy-

[David Locke]

If you are selling stuff that complements Microsoft's products, you should sign up for their third-party marketing program. These programs provide a catelog to the Microsoft install base. These programs exist, because it isn't in a vendor's interest to sue those that they have to evangelize.

[John McCombs]

Sorry, I don't have the link handy, but Microsoft do have a document on their website covering the use of their trademarks. Your "Utility Macros for Microsoft Excel" is pretty much spot on, but read their doc, it's very clear about what is and isn't acceptable.

[Donald Adams]

You are allowed to mention what your products supports or works with. It's the Nominative Use Doctrine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use_doctrine

[Mike Morris]

This place really is a wealth of information....thanks for all the replies. It looks like what I'd like to do (as far as the web site copy) is fine, and if it isn't....at least I'll have an opportunity to remedy it without getting sued back to the stone age ;-)